Matt. 10:28 - The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
And do not be afraid of those killing the body but who are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear the one able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.
My translation
Submitted by andrew on Tue, 24/04/2007 - 09:46.
This verse comes in the context of Jesus’ instructions to the twelve before sending them out to proclaim the imminence of the reign of God (10:7). In particular it presupposes the warning that they will face persecution from the Jews as they go through the towns of Israel (10:23). There is no thought here of a mission to the Gentiles as such, but as they proclaim the coming of the kingdom of God to Israel, they can expect to be dragged before both Jewish and Roman authorities (10:17-18).
He tells them not to be afraid of their persecutors because although they can kill the body, they cannot destroy the fundamental integrity of a person who carries on the mission of the Son of man. They will be vindicated - by way of resurrection if necessary - at the coming of the Son of man to receive the kingdom. But they should fear - as all Israel should fear at this time of eschatological crisis - the God who will utterly destroy rebellious Israel, without hope of restoration or resurrection to life, in the coming judgment. The image of gehenna is drawn from Jeremiah’s vivid account of the horrors of the Babylonian invasion (Jer. 7:30-33; 19:6-8). Just as the bodies of Jerusalem’s dead were thrown into the Valley of Hinnom when the Babylonians attacked, so Jesus imagines the dead piling up in the valley of gehenna during the war against Rome. What the prophet Jesus imagines the historian Josephus describes:
Now the seditious at first gave orders that the dead should be buried out of the public treasury, as not enduring the stench of their dead bodies. But afterwards, when they could not do that, they had them cast down from the walls into the valleys beneath. (War 5.12.3).
The surprising dualism of ’body’ and ’soul’ in this verse appears to reflect specifically a Hellenized martyr theology, rather than general philosophical terminology; for example:
When he was about to die under the blows, he groaned aloud and said: “It is clear to the Lord in his holy knowledge that, though I might have been saved from death, I am enduring terrible sufferings in my body under this beating, but in my soul (psuchēn) I am glad to suffer these things because I fear him.” (2 Macc. 6:30; cf. 7:37)
Each of them and all of them together looking at one another, cheerful and undaunted, said, “Let us with all our hearts consecrate ourselves to God, who gave us our lives (psuchas), and let us use our bodies as a bulwark for the law. 14 Let us not fear him who thinks he is killing us.... (4 Macc. 13:13)
The valley bore this name at least as early as the writing of Joshua (Josh. 15:8; 18:16), though nothing is known of its origin. It was the site of child-sacrifices to Moloch in the days of Ahaz and Manasseh (apparently in 2 Kings 16:3; 21:6). This earned it the name “Topheth,” a place to be spit on or abhorred. This “Topheth” may have become a gigantic pyre for burning corpses in the days of Hezekiah after God slew 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in a night and saved Jerusalem (Isa. 30:31-33; 37:26). Jeremiah predicted that it would be filled to overflowing with Israelite corpses when God judged them for their sins (Jer. 7:31-33; 19:2-13). Josephus indicates that the same valley was heaped with dead bodies of the Jews following the Roman siege of Jerusalem about A.D. 69-70...Josiah desecrated the repugnant valley as part of his godly reform (2 Kings 23:10). Long before the time of Jesus, the Valley of Hinnom had become crusted over with connotations of whatever is “condemned, useless, corrupt, and forever discarded.” (Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 160.)
Fudge got it exactly right. Thanks for the quotation. I presume you mean the dilemma of hell. Why call the solution ’annihilationism’? It invites the sort of pseudo-technical, hair-splitting, systematizing, adversarial, modernist approach to biblical interpretation that we need to get away from. Why not just speak as the Bible does about ’death’? The wages of sin is death: that encapsulates the theology of God’s judgment on Israel.
Andrew, sorry about that...I used “dilemma” to satisfy my own controversies; to me annihilationism is a sort of compromise since I cannot accept universal salvation, nor can I subscribe to the traditional view of hell/heaven and post-mortem eternal punishment.
But yes, I am with you; I wish we could get rid of all those walls and systems we’ve been building for so long and just use the plain language of the Bible, such as “death” and “life” and “judgment” - and how wonderful (in the textual sense) these words are in their covenental and historical contexts?!
I was just curious as to why you could not accept universal salvation? I’ve spent the past 2 years studying the significant historicity, Biblical warrant and rational arguments for Christian Universalism and find all to be compelling. It appears to solve most if not all of the apparent dilemmas of traditional/reformed Christian theology and Bible interpretation.
I ask this question out of the utmost respect for your views.
Submitted by peter wilkinson on Fri, 30/03/2007 - 12:27.
” … as all Israel should fear at this time of eschatological crisis - the God who will utterly destroy rebellious Israel”
There is no mention of rebellious Israel in Matthew 10:28; but there is reference to ‘body and soul’ - ‘fear him who can destroy body and soul in hell’. This is a warning to the disciples, not Israel, against apostacy - that they should not turn away from loyalty to the one who had sent them, even to death. The warning includes the reference to hell (gehenna), which leads to the next point:
“The image of gehenna is drawn from Jeremiah’s vivid account of the horrors of the Babylonian invasion - Jeremiah 7:30-33; 19:6-8 - - -“
Jeremiah’s prophecy referred to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon in 587 B.C. Was Jesus intending his warnings about gehenna to be a literal recapitulation of this event? Yes and no. The echoes of Jeremiah in Jesus’s own words are certainly notable - even down to the carcases being exposed to the ‘birds of the air’/’vultures/eagles’ - Jeremiah 7:33, 19:7/Matthew 24:28.
No-one is denying that Jesus warned about the disaster of AD 70 in the synoptic apocalypses. It would be natural for Jesus or any NT author to draw on the history and imagery of their people in describing prophetic events. AD 70 bore a resemblance to the earlier destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel is invoked to create the idea of a recapitulation of the desecration of the temple.
It is also the case that Jesus warned about the AD 70 disaster in language that invoked his own unique status and role - not merely a prophet who gave warning about disloyalty ro YHWH, but a messiah who came to do battle on Israel’s behalf against her enemies, and one who in his own person, and in the way he was invoked following his death/resurrection, placed him, as NT Wright puts it, on ‘the divine side of the equation’.
In other words, this is not mere recapitulation of Israel’s previous history, but the conclusion towards which her history was tending. Time is up. God has himself come in person to visit Israel - conclusively. The issues for Israel are now not simply of temporal but eternal significance - where eternal means the everlasting fulfilment of God’s purposes for his creation.
In the same way, it is impossible to view references to Hinnom in gehenna in quite the same way as at previous stages of Israel’s history. The burial ground is now not simply a place where bodies are buried; it is also a place signifying the ultimate destiny of those buried there, and by metonymy, all who die and are buried at all times. All the imagery associated with Hinnom now comes into play - not just the references in Jeremiah, but the contemporary visual aid which the valley presented - a place of garbage disposal, the place where Judas hanged himself, a place where in former times, Israel had practised the condemnable abominations of child sacrifice, and a place representing her own condemnation. Associated with gehenna are further references Jesus makes to the ultimate destiny of rebellious Israel, the place of outer darkness where those who opposed him would be cast - Matthew 8:12, 13:42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30; Luke 13:28 etc. It seems clear that Jesus is taking the imagery of Hinnom contained in gehenna, along with other imagery of final judgement, much further than was suggested by Jeremiah.
The finality of this judgement beyond death is suggested in Matthew 10:28, which is reinforced by Matthew 10:33. Gehenna here is very much more than a geographical and historical place of slaughter.
It seems odd that Andrew should seek to locate the ‘surprising dualism of body and soul’ of Matthew 10:28 in a ‘hellenised martyr theology’, quoting from 2 & 4 Maccabees to reinforce the case. But the very last thing the Maccabeean martyrs wanted was anything to do with Greece and Greek thinking. The NT is quite at ease in speaking of soma and psuche, without suggesting any particular division of the human person by doing so (eg bipartate or tripartate models beloved of contemporary theorists). The emphasis is on the totality of destruction, in contrast with those who can only destroy the body, but not that part of the person preserved by God after death for resurrection (the so-called intermediate state, when dead people are alive, conscious, but not yet complete in the sense of not having been given a resurrection body). The point being made is that God has the power to utterly destroy not simply his obvious opponents, but those who turn away from him through disloyalty. This was a warning to the disciples, not Israel in general.
The main principle of interpretation is one which occurs time and again in NT interpretation: that the NT introduces a new phase in Israel’s history, new events and concepts which had not appeared previously. It is therefore possible to use the vocabulary and imagery of Israel’s previous history to describe what is happening now, but it is not possible to confine their meaning exclusively to that of a previous phase in her history. Jesus himself bore no exact parallel with anyone who had gone before; what he did was not an exact repetition of anything that had preceded him. In many respects, it is accurate to say that he is unique. But not all the imagery or vocabulary which is used to describe him is unique; much of Israel’s history is consummated in him; the language of Israel’s history is deployed to describe him, but the content of the language and imagery is filled out with fresh meaning.
In the same way, the language which Jesus uses is not simply a recapitulation of the way in which language was being used in the past. The associations are there, but the content is filled out in fresh ways. This is precisely how we need to approach concepts like gehenna. It has all the richness of the imagery associated with the word, but the new context gives enhanced meaning to the word. It is not difficult to deduce his from the context of the gospels. If we were in any doubt, there is plenty of supporting evidence to reinforce the new meaning in the new context.
The burial ground is now not simply a place where bodies are buried; it is also a place signifying the ultimate destiny of those buried there, and by metonymy, all who die and are buried at all times.
I agree that Jesus weaves other thoughts into the judgment motif, but the fact that he elaborates the thought does not necessarily mean that he extends its frame of reference. The other images, as you seem to allow, are also mostly drawn from Old Testament prophecies of judgment on rebellious Israel. Nothing that you have added takes us beyond the circumstances of first century Israel. Matthew 10:28 has no necessary universal implication: it simply means that the destruction of gehenna is final and total.
So we are still left with the question: What is the basis for extending what Jesus has to say about gehenna to the whole of humanity? You can’t just wave the magic wand of ’metonymy’ over the verse and transform it into a universal principle!
It is not the martyrs who are ’hellenized’ but the theology and outlook represented in the Maccabean writings. I have my doubts about the idea that the ’soul’ is preserved after death in an ’intermediate state’, but perhaps we can save that for another occasion.
It is therefore possible to use the vocabulary and imagery of Israel’s previous history to describe what is happening now, but it is not possible to confine their meaning exclusively to that of a previous phase in her history.
This is still only an unsubstantiated hermeneutical assertion. Why is it not possible? Where is the evidence that Jesus meant his words to be taken as directly relevant beyond the narrative about judgment and restoration? Where has this ’principle of interpretation’ come from? It is, of course, possible that he saw potential in the imagery of gehenna for a universal application, beyond AD 70, but the texts do not compel this assumption. My argument would be that there are much better ways of connecting ourselves with the transforming power of the Gospel story, which do not require us to read anachronistic notions into Jesus’ teaching.
Submitted by peter wilkinson on Tue, 24/04/2007 - 09:55.
Andrew - I think our disagreements come down to what we think the ‘much better ways of reading the texts’ are. I can’t think how I could have made it any clearer, with abundance of reference and argument, step by step, that it is regressive to confine the reference to Hinnom in Jesus’s usage of gehenna to earlier phases of its usage - just as it is regressive to confine other NT terminology to purely OT usage. This is so basic, that if we disagree here, we open up an unbridgeable gap.
Fundamentally, I believe that your approach to New Testament interpretation is deeply flawed - something which I have indicated in previous posts, though in slightly less temperate language.
I know your views on the intermediate state - I was just being provocative by raising it, somewhat out of the context of the subject of the thread. Again, I don’t think your view is sustainable; there is sufficient evidence in OT and NT to suggest that consciousness is maintained after death and before resurrection of the body.
Seriously, I think it is one thing to have discussions on your own website with tinpot debaters like myself, but your ideas are worthy of better debate than this, and should be exposed to the searchlight of serious academic discussion. I am actually quite concerned that you are developing such a major revision of NT interpretation outside of the formative influence of critical interaction with trained theological minds. I have seen no reviews of your first book anywhere - and that is a serious omission, as it is a far profounder postmodern revision of theology than I think anyone has realised - maybe even yourself. This doesn’t make your position right - but it should be given serious attention and thought, teasing out all the issues which are raised, both textually (which are not a few), philosophically and theologically.
Re: The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
Andrew, some of those very same thoughts have prompted me to seriously consider annihilationism as a solution to the apparent dilemma.
Understanding the proper use of “Gehenna” and the context in which it was used in the first century is crucial to the conversation in my opinion. In his book “The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment,” Edward Fudge wrote:
Re: The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
Fudge got it exactly right. Thanks for the quotation. I presume you mean the dilemma of hell. Why call the solution ’annihilationism’? It invites the sort of pseudo-technical, hair-splitting, systematizing, adversarial, modernist approach to biblical interpretation that we need to get away from. Why not just speak as the Bible does about ’death’? The wages of sin is death: that encapsulates the theology of God’s judgment on Israel.
opensourcetheology
Andrew, sorry about that...I used “dilemma” to satisfy my own controversies; to me annihilationism is a sort of compromise since I cannot accept universal salvation, nor can I subscribe to the traditional view of hell/heaven and post-mortem eternal punishment.
But yes, I am with you; I wish we could get rid of all those walls and systems we’ve been building for so long and just use the plain language of the Bible, such as “death” and “life” and “judgment” - and how wonderful (in the textual sense) these words are in their covenental and historical contexts?!
Universal Salvation
Virgil,
I was just curious as to why you could not accept universal salvation? I’ve spent the past 2 years studying the significant historicity, Biblical warrant and rational arguments for Christian Universalism and find all to be compelling. It appears to solve most if not all of the apparent dilemmas of traditional/reformed Christian theology and Bible interpretation.
I ask this question out of the utmost respect for your views.
By grace,
Tom H.
Re: The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
” … as all Israel should fear at this time of eschatological crisis - the God who will utterly destroy rebellious Israel”
There is no mention of rebellious Israel in Matthew 10:28; but there is reference to ‘body and soul’ - ‘fear him who can destroy body and soul in hell’. This is a warning to the disciples, not Israel, against apostacy - that they should not turn away from loyalty to the one who had sent them, even to death. The warning includes the reference to hell (gehenna), which leads to the next point:
“The image of gehenna is drawn from Jeremiah’s vivid account of the horrors of the Babylonian invasion - Jeremiah 7:30-33; 19:6-8 - - -“
Jeremiah’s prophecy referred to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon in 587 B.C. Was Jesus intending his warnings about gehenna to be a literal recapitulation of this event? Yes and no. The echoes of Jeremiah in Jesus’s own words are certainly notable - even down to the carcases being exposed to the ‘birds of the air’/’vultures/eagles’ - Jeremiah 7:33, 19:7/Matthew 24:28.
No-one is denying that Jesus warned about the disaster of AD 70 in the synoptic apocalypses. It would be natural for Jesus or any NT author to draw on the history and imagery of their people in describing prophetic events. AD 70 bore a resemblance to the earlier destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel is invoked to create the idea of a recapitulation of the desecration of the temple.
It is also the case that Jesus warned about the AD 70 disaster in language that invoked his own unique status and role - not merely a prophet who gave warning about disloyalty ro YHWH, but a messiah who came to do battle on Israel’s behalf against her enemies, and one who in his own person, and in the way he was invoked following his death/resurrection, placed him, as NT Wright puts it, on ‘the divine side of the equation’.
In other words, this is not mere recapitulation of Israel’s previous history, but the conclusion towards which her history was tending. Time is up. God has himself come in person to visit Israel - conclusively. The issues for Israel are now not simply of temporal but eternal significance - where eternal means the everlasting fulfilment of God’s purposes for his creation.
In the same way, it is impossible to view references to Hinnom in gehenna in quite the same way as at previous stages of Israel’s history. The burial ground is now not simply a place where bodies are buried; it is also a place signifying the ultimate destiny of those buried there, and by metonymy, all who die and are buried at all times. All the imagery associated with Hinnom now comes into play - not just the references in Jeremiah, but the contemporary visual aid which the valley presented - a place of garbage disposal, the place where Judas hanged himself, a place where in former times, Israel had practised the condemnable abominations of child sacrifice, and a place representing her own condemnation. Associated with gehenna are further references Jesus makes to the ultimate destiny of rebellious Israel, the place of outer darkness where those who opposed him would be cast - Matthew 8:12, 13:42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30; Luke 13:28 etc. It seems clear that Jesus is taking the imagery of Hinnom contained in gehenna, along with other imagery of final judgement, much further than was suggested by Jeremiah.
The finality of this judgement beyond death is suggested in Matthew 10:28, which is reinforced by Matthew 10:33. Gehenna here is very much more than a geographical and historical place of slaughter.
It seems odd that Andrew should seek to locate the ‘surprising dualism of body and soul’ of Matthew 10:28 in a ‘hellenised martyr theology’, quoting from 2 & 4 Maccabees to reinforce the case. But the very last thing the Maccabeean martyrs wanted was anything to do with Greece and Greek thinking. The NT is quite at ease in speaking of soma and psuche, without suggesting any particular division of the human person by doing so (eg bipartate or tripartate models beloved of contemporary theorists). The emphasis is on the totality of destruction, in contrast with those who can only destroy the body, but not that part of the person preserved by God after death for resurrection (the so-called intermediate state, when dead people are alive, conscious, but not yet complete in the sense of not having been given a resurrection body). The point being made is that God has the power to utterly destroy not simply his obvious opponents, but those who turn away from him through disloyalty. This was a warning to the disciples, not Israel in general.
The main principle of interpretation is one which occurs time and again in NT interpretation: that the NT introduces a new phase in Israel’s history, new events and concepts which had not appeared previously. It is therefore possible to use the vocabulary and imagery of Israel’s previous history to describe what is happening now, but it is not possible to confine their meaning exclusively to that of a previous phase in her history. Jesus himself bore no exact parallel with anyone who had gone before; what he did was not an exact repetition of anything that had preceded him. In many respects, it is accurate to say that he is unique. But not all the imagery or vocabulary which is used to describe him is unique; much of Israel’s history is consummated in him; the language of Israel’s history is deployed to describe him, but the content of the language and imagery is filled out with fresh meaning.
In the same way, the language which Jesus uses is not simply a recapitulation of the way in which language was being used in the past. The associations are there, but the content is filled out in fresh ways. This is precisely how we need to approach concepts like gehenna. It has all the richness of the imagery associated with the word, but the new context gives enhanced meaning to the word. It is not difficult to deduce his from the context of the gospels. If we were in any doubt, there is plenty of supporting evidence to reinforce the new meaning in the new context.
Re: The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
I agree that Jesus weaves other thoughts into the judgment motif, but the fact that he elaborates the thought does not necessarily mean that he extends its frame of reference. The other images, as you seem to allow, are also mostly drawn from Old Testament prophecies of judgment on rebellious Israel. Nothing that you have added takes us beyond the circumstances of first century Israel. Matthew 10:28 has no necessary universal implication: it simply means that the destruction of gehenna is final and total.
So we are still left with the question: What is the basis for extending what Jesus has to say about gehenna to the whole of humanity? You can’t just wave the magic wand of ’metonymy’ over the verse and transform it into a universal principle!
It is not the martyrs who are ’hellenized’ but the theology and outlook represented in the Maccabean writings. I have my doubts about the idea that the ’soul’ is preserved after death in an ’intermediate state’, but perhaps we can save that for another occasion.
This is still only an unsubstantiated hermeneutical assertion. Why is it not possible? Where is the evidence that Jesus meant his words to be taken as directly relevant beyond the narrative about judgment and restoration? Where has this ’principle of interpretation’ come from? It is, of course, possible that he saw potential in the imagery of gehenna for a universal application, beyond AD 70, but the texts do not compel this assumption. My argument would be that there are much better ways of connecting ourselves with the transforming power of the Gospel story, which do not require us to read anachronistic notions into Jesus’ teaching.
Re: The destruction of body and soul in gehenna
Andrew - I think our disagreements come down to what we think the ‘much better ways of reading the texts’ are. I can’t think how I could have made it any clearer, with abundance of reference and argument, step by step, that it is regressive to confine the reference to Hinnom in Jesus’s usage of gehenna to earlier phases of its usage - just as it is regressive to confine other NT terminology to purely OT usage. This is so basic, that if we disagree here, we open up an unbridgeable gap.
Fundamentally, I believe that your approach to New Testament interpretation is deeply flawed - something which I have indicated in previous posts, though in slightly less temperate language.
I know your views on the intermediate state - I was just being provocative by raising it, somewhat out of the context of the subject of the thread. Again, I don’t think your view is sustainable; there is sufficient evidence in OT and NT to suggest that consciousness is maintained after death and before resurrection of the body.
Seriously, I think it is one thing to have discussions on your own website with tinpot debaters like myself, but your ideas are worthy of better debate than this, and should be exposed to the searchlight of serious academic discussion. I am actually quite concerned that you are developing such a major revision of NT interpretation outside of the formative influence of critical interaction with trained theological minds. I have seen no reviews of your first book anywhere - and that is a serious omission, as it is a far profounder postmodern revision of theology than I think anyone has realised - maybe even yourself. This doesn’t make your position right - but it should be given serious attention and thought, teasing out all the issues which are raised, both textually (which are not a few), philosophically and theologically.